ellbent wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 20:08I think the point at which a user is told "you think you are the self-appointed dictator of WetV" and the response is only to go "pretty much" and ban two people for hours is more than a little lamentable.
This isn't so much a "mud Erik" such as a "why not mud Erik."
Seriously, what is the downside to mudding Erik? In what aspect of deciding to mud Erik would the site fail to benefit?
shi wrote on Sun, 11 April 2011 21:49
we fail to benefit from users who can think for themselves and use the tools they have been given to act upon actions from other users who are using these same tools against other users.
ellbent wrote on Mon, 11 April 2011 23:08This is where you're losing me. What do you consider a good user, someone who fits this site's purpose? What is this site's purpose? What's the mission statement here? What is worthwhile on this site besides WetV itself? The games?
The games are like gruntwork; people play them so they can get cookies so they don't fall behind in the endless arms race of WetV, even though that "arms race" was pretty much rendered pointless by the fact that hoe house doles out more crowns to the winner than the amount someone would have after banking every day for what, three or four years straight? Longer than that?
Are the games the point of Wetgenes? Is WetV the carrot dangling at the end of the stick, the one good original thing here? People are banking out of reflex or habit now, even though I don't think anyone at any point said "boy, I played all these games, oh I wonder what am I going to do with all these cookies."
The most oft-given command is reg abandon, not tv yay. If WetV is supposed to be an exercise in self-governance, it's long been little more than proof positive that people are dicks when they get the chance to be -- no implemented command or game, new or old, has changed that.
I mean, cripes, you and XIX talk about 'tools' and 'users' like you hardly even watch what goes on. What do you think happens, some reasoned debate of intent? It's not the United Nations, it's Parliament. Nothing gets done, but the latter's just more belligerent. WetV is ban tag. It's ban tag, back and forth until roughly half the userbase can't enjoy the most interesting and potential-laden piece of work Wetgenes has going for it.
Alright, this is WetV;
Someone who's level 12 (with as many crowns, or more) bans a level 11. No reason, just at some point the two disagreed, and there's no real incentive to not ban that person, because you expend nothing in doing so.
So, she's banned for three hours. she plays the games, gets several thousand cookies together, and shortens her ban time to an hour and a half. Keeping in mind, of course, that every cookies she spends is one she can't spend on forms, so the gap between her and the aggressor is widening. That's, of course, assuming she banks his forms at all anymore. After all, why try to bank 400,000-600,000 cookies day in, day out, to get one level sometime next year, when someone else can make up the difference of a dozen levels?
A friend comes in, maybe he gives the banned part some cookies, also from playing the hardly compelling games. Several thousand, again. So now she types 'cthulhu cookies' with triumph! She's free from the swearbox. So she rejoins public.
And she's banned again. Not just banned though, the whole shebang. The aggressor's had macros for years, why not use them? Dis. Gag. Tag. Ban. Because there is no diplomacy on Wetgenes. There's no reason NOT to be a dickbag, when it doesn't cost you anything to do so besides inviting a fear of reprisal. The closest you GET to diplomacy on Wetgenes is "please don't ban me," and begging for mercy isn't diplomacy.
Back to the swearbox, and banned for three more hours. Only now she can't even go to her own room, because the tag won't fit in there. She hops onto Skype or Steam or what have you -- because communication through Wetgenes isn't exactly easy -- And asks a friend to come help them out. Get the tag off them. So they do, and she goes to her own room.
So, essentially, the people who end up in private rooms are;
Those who are only in WetV out of genuine friendships, not Web 2.0 bullshit.
Those who have simply given up on trying to be a part of the wetgenes community.
Those who still bank as you used to encourage, and thus can't buy off their bans.
... And this is sad. It's a sad thing, because these are three categories of user who want Wetgenes to flourish. And because the only way most people come to Wetgenes are through public.tv being posted elsewhere, the public.tv new userbase never meets them, or only enough to see them get banned into oblivion. For most of them, they don't know anything about Wetgenes or WetV. They don't even know 'reg rtfm' is a command, let alone something they should read, and most of them only register because they're told to, not because it's something that they find intuitive or appealing. When they find out there's a forum, they're surprised.
Not that the forum is worth browsing most of the time, as most of the posts are the same jokes over and over between the same people over and over, and every single person appointed to look over them ends up abusive, ego-inflated, or just plain negligent. The same arguments pop up every time, and most of the responses to any kind of intervention from you and XIX are met with a noncommittal "deal with it yourselves" or "the solution would requires too much supervision on our part, so it's the wrong solution." Not all solutions are going to be short and elegant!
Since when is supervision outside your job description as the people whose names wisely declare copyright on WetV? And wise it is, as it's the only thing worth stealing, though forms, games, and everything else on Wetgenes certainly won't make the transition when someone eventually DOES steal it. If you're only going to do the wizardry -- and friggin' wizardry it is, I couldn't code two lines -- behind the curtain, then reach out to the people who post on Wetgenes every day. Talk to the people who offer feedback, who fill out bug reports, who've stuck around because they like this place, not because they like what it allows them to do to other users. They're there, and it's better that you just share responsibility than be outright negligent.
This is not an environment where a community of people with an interest in having a good time thrive. It's an environment where the abusive users lord over the ignorant users while the only people who think you and XIX deserve any kind of real congratulation or recognition -- not just blind boot-kissing -- just sigh and hope things get better while idling in private rooms.
What kind of community is it that you are trying to cultivate?
Mission statement: "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke!"
I really don't understand the baww, we have logs of all the banning and erik is managing about one ban every 2-4 hours. Hardly a lot.
See http://wetlogs.blogspot.com/ any complaint about excessive banning requires a link to the day on which it happened otherwise I assume you are just making it up. If you wish to claim these logs are wrong then that would be another bug report.
So yeah if Erik was banning excessively we wouldn't hesitate to take action...
PS: Erik was here before wetv.
PPS: Please don't make me side with Erik, it sickens me.
I liked the days back when there was Fish TV, except Taokaka was worse than Erik since Taokaka gets easily angered and bans when he is butthurt - which is all the time. Apparently, being a dick is only adorable if it's an illegal Mexican. Sorry Erik. We love illegals. They work for cheap!
On a serious note, to avoid problems like this, we should just make a private TV room and make sure the right people are tv moderators. The list of decent people is actually quite long, since most active members are decent sans the furries.
1. NEVER ASBO THE ROOM HE IS IN WHILE HE IS ACTIVE!!! I cannot stress this one enough. He will go on rampages for at least a week even without any retaliation for this offence.
2. Never retaliate. The hit to the pride is well worth the peace most of the time at least. Let him think he is some supreme warlord of a backwoods corner of the inatrbuttz. Eventually he will tire of banning you and simply go back to his usual state of "I am not even trying".
3. Just ignore him and his actions. He wants things to play out the way they are now. It entertains him to do the same commands over and over to temporarily inconvenience people. Getting upset at him and his actions only leads you back to #2 and further makes him do his thing.
These three things will lead to a bored erik with nothing to do. I have known him quite a while on this site.
HE
WILL
NEVER
CHANGE
HIS
WAYS
The ONLY way past this short of the intervention of the gods of the site is to make him so bored with not having any enemies to "crush" that he leaves... for a few months then comes back and finds some new foe.
I for one, LOVE how the gods treat the situation. There are very very very few ways to get godly interaction. Very illegal things and pissing off XIX personally (which is hard to do since he only pays attention to chat itself for about an hour a week combined). They gave us all nerf bats to hit each other with. If you don't wanna play war with the boys in the yard, then go back inside.
The gods even give us all ways to avoid public rooms entirely if we wish. They gave all of us tools to do the same things back to erik and any other oppressor. Getting e-mails going "BAWWWWW THE MEAN GUY HIT ME WITH HIS NERF BAT!!" is something the gods expect, but I respect the hell out of them that they stay so damn neutral and just leave everything up to us to interact.
As an aside though, I would love to see a whisper and ignore user option in chat. Ellbent was right on that point.
Djbaker wrote on Tue, 12 April 2011 20:52.......They gave us all nerf bats to hit each other with. If you don't wanna play war with the boys in the yard, then go back inside.
XIX wrote on Tue, 12 April 2011 21:19See http://wetlogs.blogspot.com/ any complaint about excessive banning requires a link to the day on which it happened otherwise I assume you are just making it up. If you wish to claim these logs are wrong then that would be another bug report.
So yeah if Erik was banning excessively we wouldn't hesitate to take action...
Logs for Tue Apr 12 2011Top five banners. djbaker traces xdiablox erik_revolution yukarinLogs for Mon Apr 11 2011Top five banners. traces erik_revolution richie yukarin xdiabloxLogs for Sun Apr 10 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution xdiablox richie kiteLogs for Sat Apr 09 2011Top five banners. traces richie neko erik_revolution xdiabloxLogs for Fri Apr 08 2011Top five banners. traces richie baby_wolf erik_revolution cock_waffleLogs for Thu Apr 07 2011Top five banners. richie erik_revolution xdiablox djensen_king_of_wetv quarterlifeLogs for Wed Apr 06 2011Top five banners. traces erik_revolution richie xdiablox yukarinLogs for Tue Apr 05 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution starfalco xdiablox desu_boku richieLogs for Mon Apr 04 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution richie xdiablox fish starfalcoLogs for Sun Apr 03 2011Top five banners. xdiablox odd_sister erik_revolution richie baby_wolfLogs for Sat Apr 02 2011Top five banners. richie erik_revolution xdiablox tosi taokakaLogs for Fri Apr 01 2011Top five banners. 1337 erik_revolution richie yukarin xdiablox
This month's Top Banners. I see one name on that list that is there on all the other days.
Check the number of bans, hover over each name with the mouse. You can easily become top for as little as 5 bans on a slow day. Just because you are in the top list doesn't mean it is excessive.
I'd rate traces as the worst in that list since he managed 43 in one day.
ellbent wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 20:08I think the point at which a user is told "you think you are the self-appointed dictator of WetV" and the response is only to go "pretty much" and ban two people for hours is more than a little lamentable.
Really, Desu and ellbent are not the only ones who feel this way.
I think it is becoming more and more a universal feeling and erik has honestly learns to just avoid doing things while you are watching. I think that the fact he spams away all these chat logs 90% of the time is proof of that.
Are proxies, macros, +10crowns and alt accounts written anywhere as REQUIRED tools for anyone who doesn't want to suck erik's dick when joining this website?
I think just more and more this set up is making users feel exactly how ellbent feels now. It's the reason why DJensen gave me his account and said "kbye" and probably the reason other people left too. I used to explore the rest of the website because of WetV, there is no way I'd have opened any of this short of being forced to do so without it. I think when I realize this is how the website is gonna be I end up with a "ugh, fuck this shitty place" kind of attitude instead of a "Oh this is sort of neat" feeling.
Unless someone wants to learn all these stupid little secrets like opening a new window when you are danced to go to limbo, download macros, learn to clear your IP address, patrol limbo/swearbox as a me, or just plain learn to get a +10 account with telnet proxies(ect ect) you really don't stand a chance against people like erik who have practiced the art of being an annoying faggot for the past few years now here. I think I am probably the only user who fights back successfully against it and only because I've been in constant invoke/ban fights for the past two years and understand how this bullshit works. No normal user should have to do that just to use the website. There isn't even a realistic way to protect your own private room and enjoy that short from collecting tons and tons of cookies.
Why does no one have a problem with traces even though he bans the most while on the other hand people are actually quitting because of Erik. Erik is actually pretty proud of it too you know.
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
I guess we do kind of sound like broken records but you've yet to really explain to us, the community, why we are so wrong about this. Don't get me wrong I love wetgenes I just think maybe I should also put in my two bits so perhaps you realize after like the 10th person messaging you about it there is perhaps some kind of pattern.
Perhaps a system where the difference between levels means the more cookies require to ban people. Seeing how someone in a higher level position would naturally have more cookies, it should cost them more cookies to ban, especially if banning someone at a very low level. That way instead of costing a meager 15 cookies to ban users for 4 hours it could possibly cost between 300-800k. Even another system where the higher your level, the more it costs to ban someone. The main problem with banning people right now is that it is effortless on the perpetrator's behalf and devastating on the victim's end. Everyone already has a gun, just make the bullets expensive.
They are whining because maybe at one(multiple) point(s) in time you banned or used an invoke on them.
It's how the god damned game is played, you ban and get banned.
LERN 2 USE THE TAG, THE GREAT EQUALIZER!
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also in regards to Desu's post, xDiablox and I are on that list just as much as Erik, why is there now BAAW thread about us? I think you guys are just really pissy at Erik.
We still can not stop other people from being douchebags.
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
We can however provide you with private rooms where you are pretty much safe and in control. A few small loopholes to this but that doesn't really seem to be the topic of complaint. EG: I am prepared to nerf dance...
There is always a churn, if someone thinks that someone is a problem and leaves then it is sad that they do not like this place enough to stop that someone from being a problem to other people.
If I, as an administrator, get in a banning war with one of the users it is exactly the same amount of effort as if one of the users was to get in a banning war with one of the other users.
So if you want it done, do it yourself.
Apart from anything else you haven't convinced me that you are not the douchebag in this case.
Fridge wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 14:25Perhaps a system where the difference between levels means the more cookies require to ban people. Seeing how someone in a higher level position would naturally have more cookies, it should cost them more cookies to ban, especially if banning someone at a very low level. That way instead of costing a meager 15 cookies to ban users for 4 hours it could possibly cost between 300-800k. Even another system where the higher your level, the more it costs to ban someone. The main problem with banning people right now is that it is effortless on the perpetrator's behalf and devastating on the victim's end. Everyone already has a gun, just make the bullets expensive.
The whole point of this admin system is to give regular users power over guests. Thus stopping drive by douchebaggery.
That the regular users are also douchebags is purely a social problem.
there is already a system in place where users fight it out amongst themselves. this has been designed to ensure a self-moderated chat which it did not start out to be but became after numerous iterations and problem-solving, none of which were short and elegant. the chat as it stands now is testament to this.
we are not just a "website". this is thunderdome, baby.
fish wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 13:02Really, Desu and ellbent are not the only ones who feel this way.
I think it is becoming more and more a universal feeling and erik has honestly learns to just avoid doing things while you are watching. I think that the fact he spams away all these chat logs 90% of the time is proof of that.
Are proxies, macros, +10crowns and alt accounts written anywhere as REQUIRED tools for anyone who doesn't want to suck erik's dick when joining this website?
I think just more and more this set up is making users feel exactly how ellbent feels now. It's the reason why DJensen gave me his account and said "kbye" and probably the reason other people left too. I used to explore the rest of the website because of WetV, there is no way I'd have opened any of this short of being forced to do so without it. I think when I realize this is how the website is gonna be I end up with a "ugh, fuck this shitty place" kind of attitude instead of a "Oh this is sort of neat" feeling.
Unless someone wants to learn all these stupid little secrets like opening a new window when you are danced to go to limbo, download macros, learn to clear your IP address, patrol limbo/swearbox as a me, or just plain learn to get a +10 account with telnet proxies(ect ect) you really don't stand a chance against people like erik who have practiced the art of being an annoying faggot for the past few years now here. I think I am probably the only user who fights back successfully against it and only because I've been in constant invoke/ban fights for the past two years and understand how this bullshit works. No normal user should have to do that just to use the website. There isn't even a realistic way to protect your own private room and enjoy that short from collecting tons and tons of cookies.
Why does no one have a problem with traces even though he bans the most while on the other hand people are actually quitting because of Erik. Erik is actually pretty proud of it too you know.
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
I guess we do kind of sound like broken records but you've yet to really explain to us, the community, why we are so wrong about this. Don't get me wrong I love wetgenes I just think maybe I should also put in my two bits so perhaps you realize after like the 10th person messaging you about it there is perhaps some kind of pattern.
So what you are saying is that you have learned things and bettered yourself by visiting this site.
Therefore we have designed it wrong?
The average lifespan of a user is about 2 months, people will get bored no matter what.
So if anyone stays longer than 2 months then we win.
fish wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 12:02
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
XIX wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 13:11We still can not stop other people from being douchebags.
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
XIX wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 14:11if someone thinks that someone is a problem and leaves then it is sad that they do not like this place enough to stop that someone from being a problem to other people.
I love this place, and because I do, I try as much as possible to stop certain users from being here. Its not like they can't defend themselves anyways.
Why do I do this?
Because those users are bad for the community.
Taokaka wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 23:56
I mean jesus fuck it costs 15 cookies to ban someone. that's terrible what were you thinking.
This is just a nominal fee to ban a slightly higher user, something that didn't use to be possible. Mostly a ban costs 0 cookies. Why? well you are supposed to ban douchebags, who would charge for that?
fish wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 23:43XIX wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 13:11We still can not stop other people from being douchebags.
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
A little encouragement wouldn't hurt.
I encourage you not to be a douchebag and to revive fish.tv
XIX wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 23:24you are supposed to ban douchebags
then ban erik.
Erik_Revolution wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 23:10
I love this place (because people actually like me on this website and will suck my dick and do whatever I tell them to do because I have power), and because I do, I try as much as possible to stop certain users from being here. (because they hurt my feelings on the internet and I go to sleep thinking about what they said.)
I'M ERIK THESE PEOPLE DON'T FIT INTO MY AUTISTIC INTERNET UTOPIA FANTASIES BECAUSE THEY REALIZE I AM A BIG BABY FAGGOT WHO LIKES TO SUCK DICK ALL DAY AND I DON'T HAVE ANY FRIENDS
WHY WON'T THE INTERNET LIKE ME IT MUST BE THAT THE ENTIRE COLLECTIVE INTERNET IS BAD RATHER THAN JUST ME BEING A FAGGOT, I KNOW BETTER THAN THEM
Is it an okay thing to attempt to keep someone out of Public.tv for weeks simply because they don't like the Matrix trilogy? It doesn't seem like it, but I could be wrong.
Commrade_Kommisar wrote on Thu, 14 April 2011 04:00Is it an okay thing to attempt to keep someone out of Public.tv for weeks simply because they don't like the Matrix trilogy? It doesn't seem like it, but I could be wrong.
Again, a private room will solve all these problems. Remember when we had private rooms? Like, all the problematic people, just like, disappeared for like, a long time! WHOA!!! Hell, private rooms made entombor leave super quick, and he never came back - as far as we know, anyway.
If what everyone says is true, the Gods are put in a position where they must do something about Erik - though they may be lazy and make crappy excuses despite it being easy to do/justified/etc. I propose that the Gods make a new "punishment state" to fix the situation. Simply make it where his alts/him can not obtain crowns. It's like being mud'd, but now he'd be more manageable and less of an annoyance to those who care. He can still bank, play games, get cookies, and fight back/use invokes - but now he won't be able to ban people for a ridiculous amount of time. I personally have no problems with Erik, or anyone for that matter (I guess being unfunny makes me lovable). However, when someone crosses over the line, he/she does need a little adjustment to stop him/her from doing it again. This punishment could be given to anyone who gets 10 or more complaints from different users above level 9. If 10 or more people say it's a problem, then it's OBVIOUSLY a problem. We can call the new punishment-state "waterlogged" for the sake of ease.
IE: Traces gets 10 complaints, and 4 people say he's okay. That means you have 6 complaints since 4 people backed him up, so he doesn't get waterlogged. Erik gets 14 complaints and 1 person says he's okay, he get's waterlogged.
The second thing to do would be to make it cost more cookies to ban someone. It costs more to get out of a ban than it does to actually ban, so there's a problem right there.
EX:
cthulhu ban derpaherp (insert minutes here)
Each minute will cost 20 cookies, and the level difference between the banner and banee will be used to multiply the base amount. So a level 5 banning a level 10 will cost 100 cookies per minute, 6,000 cookies for an hour. Gags/Dis commands will work the same way, but will cost 5/10 cookies for the base (respectively). The maximum time for banning is 120 minutes, 30 minutes for gagging,and 60 minutes for disemvowelment. (reason: gags make it impossible to chat, losing your vowels only hinders your chatting but doesn't make it totally impossible to understand)
Bam. Problem solved. Now people will only have so many cthulhu summons up their sleeves or they will be forced to use alts/play more games/get more cookies to ban more. They will also have to transfer the cookies and what not.
There could also be a "cool down" on Cthulhu summons to stop further abuse. Like someone can only call Cthulhu every 20 minutes. This will put ban happy folks in their place, and will also protect the supposedly innocent guests. Believe it or not, people TOTALLY like NOT getting banned when watching TV. Crazy, right? But it's soooooo true!
Also, I realize all of this is a mouthful to say (you know, disregarding the fact it's text) and there's no TL;DR version. Welp, if I can handle a mouthful, all of you should be able to as well. In fact, I'm sure many of you are skilled with handling large loads in your mouths. Especially Yukarin.
and what of the problematic guests? are registered users now unable to "moderate" the chat because of these limitations?
there's a system in place. erik is just using what's there. i've been online today the entire time and have seen some action. it's not as if erik has conjured magick and banned without effort. overall, it was an utterly dull day in chat. the chaos happened in spikes of a few minutes throughout the whole day.
None of this affects me since I registered, but I don't want to be shelling out thousands of cookies to gag when I see fit.
This is a bit like government, isn't it?
I'm content to sit around and enjoy my life as it is, and others are blowing smoke out their ears saying everything is going to hell in a hand basket. I'm not happy when these smoke-blowing basket-drivers start making decisions that will affect me in my contented state. Wasn't this addressed a few months ago with the utter destruction of max levels with the +10 crown cap? "Learn to diplomacy" seems to be a fitting statement.
There are quite a few other sites that are using XIX's code for a multiplayer youtube out there. None of them (to my knowledge) use any kind of self moderation system like wetgenes. I am sure that they are now facing the same blankscreen issues, but I am also sure they will just come and lift wettest as well.
All in all, this thread has a very apt title. Very apt indeed.
Trace's wall of text made me think: Increasing Cthulhu costs per summon, going down over time.
ie Player who summons Cthulhu once every 5 hours sees no difference
Player who summons Cthulhu once every 20min will very soon go broke over the ordeal.
This method requires less babysitting/votes/other stupid shit and should still impose restrictions on people who overuse cthulhu.
shi wrote on Thu, 14 April 2011 23:25and what of the problematic guests? are registered users now unable to "moderate" the chat because of these limitations?
shi wrote on Sun, 17 April 2011 08:12and what of the problematic guests? are registered users now unable to "moderate" the chat because of these limitations?
wow who cares about guests just make them the same as they are now
shi wrote on Sun, 17 April 2011 08:12shi wrote on Thu, 14 April 2011 23:25and what of the problematic guests? are registered users now unable to "moderate" the chat because of these limitations?
Don't you mud people for banning guests in excess?
This system would stop that behavior for you.
The banning issue does not really effect me anymore, I cannot remember the last time I was banned, and the last time I was banned in excess was years ago.
Hey Erik, why do you hate me less now?
Just curious.
My main beef with wetgenes atm is that crowns feel like an obligation. I feel like I may as well not even bother logging on unless I have a +10. Generally speaking the chat is so infested with level 25+ users that I have no say in the videos, despite my banking for years.
There's a fine line between rewarding users for generating ad revenue and requiring that all users generate ad revenue to have a shot at public rooms.
Quote:There's a fine line between rewarding users for generating ad revenue and requiring that all users generate ad revenue to have a shot at public rooms.
I was trying to think of reasons why you would be willing to maim TV to generate traffic on other projects. I do not experience ads anywhere, I just assume that every square inch of empty space is supposed to have a banner ad selling me wheetabix in it.
Assuming the Wheatabix bucks aren't the reason, could you enlighten me?
Jshaw995 wrote on Sun, 17 April 2011 10:48I was trying to think of reasons why you would be willing to maim TV to generate traffic on other projects. I do not experience ads anywhere, I just assume that every square inch of empty space is supposed to have a banner ad selling me wheetabix in it.
Assuming the Wheatabix bucks aren't the reason, could you enlighten me?
Despite failing to collect cookies from richie& traces & ygor pokr to abandon the room only to be able to do it after chavving magnus just to ban ME once only to get tag-b& himself, I'm not on that list.
> Erik is a hypocrit, and everything he says is invalid.
When 4chan stops by some guests can be... problimatic at times, but 9 times out of 10 reg ends up dis'n or swearboxing them before they can cause any real mayhem. There hasn't been a guest that hasn't been a registered user in anon mode that was a problem for me in forever.
Djbaker wrote on Tue, 19 April 2011 01:46general 4channery, posting shit vids over and over, the ilk
when does this ever happen anymore
Even during the 4chan floods, we end up with guests who can muster maybe 120, 150 seconds if they all vote the same way, which never happens anyway, and they're all gone within about fifteen minutes because anyone who's been around for longer than a couple months can nullify all of that.
We ban each other way, way more than we do guests.
ellbent wrote on Sun, 10 April 2011 20:08I think the point at which a user is told "you think you are the self-appointed dictator of WetV" and the response is only to go "pretty much" and ban two people for hours is more than a little lamentable.
This isn't so much a "mud Erik" such as a "why not mud Erik."
Seriously, what is the downside to mudding Erik? In what aspect of deciding to mud Erik would the site fail to benefit?
we fail to benefit from users who can think for themselves and use the tools they have been given to act upon actions from other users who are using these same tools against other users.
please learn to diplomacy. mkay.
The games are like gruntwork; people play them so they can get cookies so they don't fall behind in the endless arms race of WetV, even though that "arms race" was pretty much rendered pointless by the fact that hoe house doles out more crowns to the winner than the amount someone would have after banking every day for what, three or four years straight? Longer than that?
Are the games the point of Wetgenes? Is WetV the carrot dangling at the end of the stick, the one good original thing here? People are banking out of reflex or habit now, even though I don't think anyone at any point said "boy, I played all these games, oh I wonder what am I going to do with all these cookies."
The most oft-given command is reg abandon, not tv yay. If WetV is supposed to be an exercise in self-governance, it's long been little more than proof positive that people are dicks when they get the chance to be -- no implemented command or game, new or old, has changed that.
I mean, cripes, you and XIX talk about 'tools' and 'users' like you hardly even watch what goes on. What do you think happens, some reasoned debate of intent? It's not the United Nations, it's Parliament. Nothing gets done, but the latter's just more belligerent. WetV is ban tag. It's ban tag, back and forth until roughly half the userbase can't enjoy the most interesting and potential-laden piece of work Wetgenes has going for it.
Alright, this is WetV;
Someone who's level 12 (with as many crowns, or more) bans a level 11. No reason, just at some point the two disagreed, and there's no real incentive to not ban that person, because you expend nothing in doing so.
So, she's banned for three hours. she plays the games, gets several thousand cookies together, and shortens her ban time to an hour and a half. Keeping in mind, of course, that every cookies she spends is one she can't spend on forms, so the gap between her and the aggressor is widening. That's, of course, assuming she banks his forms at all anymore. After all, why try to bank 400,000-600,000 cookies day in, day out, to get one level sometime next year, when someone else can make up the difference of a dozen levels?
A friend comes in, maybe he gives the banned part some cookies, also from playing the hardly compelling games. Several thousand, again. So now she types 'cthulhu cookies' with triumph! She's free from the swearbox. So she rejoins public.
And she's banned again. Not just banned though, the whole shebang. The aggressor's had macros for years, why not use them? Dis. Gag. Tag. Ban. Because there is no diplomacy on Wetgenes. There's no reason NOT to be a dickbag, when it doesn't cost you anything to do so besides inviting a fear of reprisal. The closest you GET to diplomacy on Wetgenes is "please don't ban me," and begging for mercy isn't diplomacy.
Back to the swearbox, and banned for three more hours. Only now she can't even go to her own room, because the tag won't fit in there. She hops onto Skype or Steam or what have you -- because communication through Wetgenes isn't exactly easy -- And asks a friend to come help them out. Get the tag off them. So they do, and she goes to her own room.
So, essentially, the people who end up in private rooms are;
Those who are only in WetV out of genuine friendships, not Web 2.0 bullshit.
Those who have simply given up on trying to be a part of the wetgenes community.
Those who still bank as you used to encourage, and thus can't buy off their bans.
... And this is sad. It's a sad thing, because these are three categories of user who want Wetgenes to flourish. And because the only way most people come to Wetgenes are through public.tv being posted elsewhere, the public.tv new userbase never meets them, or only enough to see them get banned into oblivion. For most of them, they don't know anything about Wetgenes or WetV. They don't even know 'reg rtfm' is a command, let alone something they should read, and most of them only register because they're told to, not because it's something that they find intuitive or appealing. When they find out there's a forum, they're surprised.
Not that the forum is worth browsing most of the time, as most of the posts are the same jokes over and over between the same people over and over, and every single person appointed to look over them ends up abusive, ego-inflated, or just plain negligent. The same arguments pop up every time, and most of the responses to any kind of intervention from you and XIX are met with a noncommittal "deal with it yourselves" or "the solution would requires too much supervision on our part, so it's the wrong solution." Not all solutions are going to be short and elegant!
Since when is supervision outside your job description as the people whose names wisely declare copyright on WetV? And wise it is, as it's the only thing worth stealing, though forms, games, and everything else on Wetgenes certainly won't make the transition when someone eventually DOES steal it. If you're only going to do the wizardry -- and friggin' wizardry it is, I couldn't code two lines -- behind the curtain, then reach out to the people who post on Wetgenes every day. Talk to the people who offer feedback, who fill out bug reports, who've stuck around because they like this place, not because they like what it allows them to do to other users. They're there, and it's better that you just share responsibility than be outright negligent.
This is not an environment where a community of people with an interest in having a good time thrive. It's an environment where the abusive users lord over the ignorant users while the only people who think you and XIX deserve any kind of real congratulation or recognition -- not just blind boot-kissing -- just sigh and hope things get better while idling in private rooms.
What kind of community is it that you are trying to cultivate?
What is Wetgenes' mission statement, anyway?
I really don't understand the baww, we have logs of all the banning and erik is managing about one ban every 2-4 hours. Hardly a lot.
See http://wetlogs.blogspot.com/ any complaint about excessive banning requires a link to the day on which it happened otherwise I assume you are just making it up. If you wish to claim these logs are wrong then that would be another bug report.
So yeah if Erik was banning excessively we wouldn't hesitate to take action...
PS: Erik was here before wetv.
PPS: Please don't make me side with Erik, it sickens me.
I meditate on Wisdom on my days off.
On a serious note, to avoid problems like this, we should just make a private TV room and make sure the right people are tv moderators. The list of decent people is actually quite long, since most active members are decent sans the furries.
1. NEVER ASBO THE ROOM HE IS IN WHILE HE IS ACTIVE!!! I cannot stress this one enough. He will go on rampages for at least a week even without any retaliation for this offence.
2. Never retaliate. The hit to the pride is well worth the peace most of the time at least. Let him think he is some supreme warlord of a backwoods corner of the inatrbuttz. Eventually he will tire of banning you and simply go back to his usual state of "I am not even trying".
3. Just ignore him and his actions. He wants things to play out the way they are now. It entertains him to do the same commands over and over to temporarily inconvenience people. Getting upset at him and his actions only leads you back to #2 and further makes him do his thing.
These three things will lead to a bored erik with nothing to do. I have known him quite a while on this site.
HE
WILL
NEVER
CHANGE
HIS
WAYS
The ONLY way past this short of the intervention of the gods of the site is to make him so bored with not having any enemies to "crush" that he leaves... for a few months then comes back and finds some new foe.
I for one, LOVE how the gods treat the situation. There are very very very few ways to get godly interaction. Very illegal things and pissing off XIX personally (which is hard to do since he only pays attention to chat itself for about an hour a week combined). They gave us all nerf bats to hit each other with. If you don't wanna play war with the boys in the yard, then go back inside.
The gods even give us all ways to avoid public rooms entirely if we wish. They gave all of us tools to do the same things back to erik and any other oppressor. Getting e-mails going "BAWWWWW THE MEAN GUY HIT ME WITH HIS NERF BAT!!" is something the gods expect, but I respect the hell out of them that they stay so damn neutral and just leave everything up to us to interact.
As an aside though, I would love to see a whisper and ignore user option in chat. Ellbent was right on that point.
Hot damn that was an excellent point
else it just ain't fun
there's no other larger inquiry into the nature of wetgenes as a whole nope
all about Erik, ignore the other 95% of the text, yup
also shut up forever Djbaker nobody missed you
Djbaker agreed with one of your points, added some points on Erik, and helped explain the nature of the chat.
YOU sir, shut up forever.
YOU sir, shut up forever.
you are a faggot
you need to work on my dick
"We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us, except the ones who are dead."
"STILL ALIVE. STILL ALIVE."
I know how Erik can be sometimes (asbo/ban). I know he can also be a good lad to converse with, surprisingly.
I have a bigger problem with traces ATM.
So yeah if Erik was banning excessively we wouldn't hesitate to take action...
Logs for Tue Apr 12 2011Top five banners. djbaker traces xdiablox erik_revolution yukarinLogs for Mon Apr 11 2011Top five banners. traces erik_revolution richie yukarin xdiabloxLogs for Sun Apr 10 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution xdiablox richie kiteLogs for Sat Apr 09 2011Top five banners. traces richie neko erik_revolution xdiabloxLogs for Fri Apr 08 2011Top five banners. traces richie baby_wolf erik_revolution cock_waffleLogs for Thu Apr 07 2011Top five banners. richie erik_revolution xdiablox djensen_king_of_wetv quarterlifeLogs for Wed Apr 06 2011Top five banners. traces erik_revolution richie xdiablox yukarinLogs for Tue Apr 05 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution starfalco xdiablox desu_boku richieLogs for Mon Apr 04 2011Top five banners. erik_revolution richie xdiablox fish starfalcoLogs for Sun Apr 03 2011Top five banners. xdiablox odd_sister erik_revolution richie baby_wolfLogs for Sat Apr 02 2011Top five banners. richie erik_revolution xdiablox tosi taokakaLogs for Fri Apr 01 2011Top five banners. 1337 erik_revolution richie yukarin xdiablox
This month's Top Banners. I see one name on that list that is there on all the other days.
There is your proof.
I'd rate traces as the worst in that list since he managed 43 in one day.
http://wetlogs.blogspot.com/2011/04/15072.html
The rest is pretty much just average use.
Yeah, pretty much!
I think it is becoming more and more a universal feeling and erik has honestly learns to just avoid doing things while you are watching. I think that the fact he spams away all these chat logs 90% of the time is proof of that.
Are proxies, macros, +10crowns and alt accounts written anywhere as REQUIRED tools for anyone who doesn't want to suck erik's dick when joining this website?
I think just more and more this set up is making users feel exactly how ellbent feels now. It's the reason why DJensen gave me his account and said "kbye" and probably the reason other people left too. I used to explore the rest of the website because of WetV, there is no way I'd have opened any of this short of being forced to do so without it. I think when I realize this is how the website is gonna be I end up with a "ugh, fuck this shitty place" kind of attitude instead of a "Oh this is sort of neat" feeling.
Unless someone wants to learn all these stupid little secrets like opening a new window when you are danced to go to limbo, download macros, learn to clear your IP address, patrol limbo/swearbox as a me, or just plain learn to get a +10 account with telnet proxies(ect ect) you really don't stand a chance against people like erik who have practiced the art of being an annoying faggot for the past few years now here. I think I am probably the only user who fights back successfully against it and only because I've been in constant invoke/ban fights for the past two years and understand how this bullshit works. No normal user should have to do that just to use the website. There isn't even a realistic way to protect your own private room and enjoy that short from collecting tons and tons of cookies.
Why does no one have a problem with traces even though he bans the most while on the other hand people are actually quitting because of Erik. Erik is actually pretty proud of it too you know.
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
I guess we do kind of sound like broken records but you've yet to really explain to us, the community, why we are so wrong about this. Don't get me wrong I love wetgenes I just think maybe I should also put in my two bits so perhaps you realize after like the 10th person messaging you about it there is perhaps some kind of pattern.
Although, I only ban certain people, starfalco, fish, taokaka and boku, I don't see why people are whining here.
It's how the god damned game is played, you ban and get banned.
LERN 2 USE THE TAG, THE GREAT EQUALIZER!
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also in regards to Desu's post, xDiablox and I are on that list just as much as Erik, why is there now BAAW thread about us? I think you guys are just really pissy at Erik.
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
We can however provide you with private rooms where you are pretty much safe and in control. A few small loopholes to this but that doesn't really seem to be the topic of complaint. EG: I am prepared to nerf dance...
There is always a churn, if someone thinks that someone is a problem and leaves then it is sad that they do not like this place enough to stop that someone from being a problem to other people.
They're actually just a couple of the many things an administrator of a website is more than capable of doing, if so inclined.
So if you want it done, do it yourself.
Apart from anything else you haven't convinced me that you are not the douchebag in this case.
The whole point of this admin system is to give regular users power over guests. Thus stopping drive by douchebaggery.
That the regular users are also douchebags is purely a social problem.
we are not just a "website". this is thunderdome, baby.
I think it is becoming more and more a universal feeling and erik has honestly learns to just avoid doing things while you are watching. I think that the fact he spams away all these chat logs 90% of the time is proof of that.
Are proxies, macros, +10crowns and alt accounts written anywhere as REQUIRED tools for anyone who doesn't want to suck erik's dick when joining this website?
I think just more and more this set up is making users feel exactly how ellbent feels now. It's the reason why DJensen gave me his account and said "kbye" and probably the reason other people left too. I used to explore the rest of the website because of WetV, there is no way I'd have opened any of this short of being forced to do so without it. I think when I realize this is how the website is gonna be I end up with a "ugh, fuck this shitty place" kind of attitude instead of a "Oh this is sort of neat" feeling.
Unless someone wants to learn all these stupid little secrets like opening a new window when you are danced to go to limbo, download macros, learn to clear your IP address, patrol limbo/swearbox as a me, or just plain learn to get a +10 account with telnet proxies(ect ect) you really don't stand a chance against people like erik who have practiced the art of being an annoying faggot for the past few years now here. I think I am probably the only user who fights back successfully against it and only because I've been in constant invoke/ban fights for the past two years and understand how this bullshit works. No normal user should have to do that just to use the website. There isn't even a realistic way to protect your own private room and enjoy that short from collecting tons and tons of cookies.
Why does no one have a problem with traces even though he bans the most while on the other hand people are actually quitting because of Erik. Erik is actually pretty proud of it too you know.
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
I guess we do kind of sound like broken records but you've yet to really explain to us, the community, why we are so wrong about this. Don't get me wrong I love wetgenes I just think maybe I should also put in my two bits so perhaps you realize after like the 10th person messaging you about it there is perhaps some kind of pattern.
So what you are saying is that you have learned things and bettered yourself by visiting this site.
Therefore we have designed it wrong?
The average lifespan of a user is about 2 months, people will get bored no matter what.
So if anyone stays longer than 2 months then we win.
EDIT: ok I didn't see the post from kohaku above because SOMEONE set kohaku to be ignored. I am looking at YOU traces.
get out of those pants.
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
A little encouragement wouldn't hurt.
I mean jesus fuck it costs 15 cookies to ban someone. that's terrible what were you thinking.
make it relevent to level like unbanning yourself is.
or just mud erik again
keep in mind erik would ban me alot more if people had the cookies to unban themselves after being banned by a level 21
I love this place, and because I do, I try as much as possible to stop certain users from being here. Its not like they can't defend themselves anyways.
Why do I do this?
Because those users are bad for the community.
Who said so?
I did
I mean jesus fuck it costs 15 cookies to ban someone. that's terrible what were you thinking.
This is just a nominal fee to ban a slightly higher user, something that didn't use to be possible. Mostly a ban costs 0 cookies. Why? well you are supposed to ban douchebags, who would charge for that?
We still can not stop you from being douchebags.
We still can not make everyone your friend.
A little encouragement wouldn't hurt.
I encourage you not to be a douchebag and to revive fish.tv
then ban erik.
Erik_Revolution wrote on Wed, 13 April 2011 23:10
I love this place (because people actually like me on this website and will suck my dick and do whatever I tell them to do because I have power), and because I do, I try as much as possible to stop certain users from being here. (because they hurt my feelings on the internet and I go to sleep thinking about what they said.)
WHY WON'T THE INTERNET LIKE ME IT MUST BE THAT THE ENTIRE COLLECTIVE INTERNET IS BAD RATHER THAN JUST ME BEING A FAGGOT, I KNOW BETTER THAN THEM
NOW EXCUSE ME WHILE I SUCK AND FUCK THIS COCK
That would be an ecumenical matter.
If what everyone says is true, the Gods are put in a position where they must do something about Erik - though they may be lazy and make crappy excuses despite it being easy to do/justified/etc. I propose that the Gods make a new "punishment state" to fix the situation. Simply make it where his alts/him can not obtain crowns. It's like being mud'd, but now he'd be more manageable and less of an annoyance to those who care. He can still bank, play games, get cookies, and fight back/use invokes - but now he won't be able to ban people for a ridiculous amount of time. I personally have no problems with Erik, or anyone for that matter (I guess being unfunny makes me lovable). However, when someone crosses over the line, he/she does need a little adjustment to stop him/her from doing it again. This punishment could be given to anyone who gets 10 or more complaints from different users above level 9. If 10 or more people say it's a problem, then it's OBVIOUSLY a problem. We can call the new punishment-state "waterlogged" for the sake of ease.
IE: Traces gets 10 complaints, and 4 people say he's okay. That means you have 6 complaints since 4 people backed him up, so he doesn't get waterlogged. Erik gets 14 complaints and 1 person says he's okay, he get's waterlogged.
The second thing to do would be to make it cost more cookies to ban someone. It costs more to get out of a ban than it does to actually ban, so there's a problem right there.
EX:
cthulhu ban derpaherp (insert minutes here)
Each minute will cost 20 cookies, and the level difference between the banner and banee will be used to multiply the base amount. So a level 5 banning a level 10 will cost 100 cookies per minute, 6,000 cookies for an hour. Gags/Dis commands will work the same way, but will cost 5/10 cookies for the base (respectively). The maximum time for banning is 120 minutes, 30 minutes for gagging,and 60 minutes for disemvowelment. (reason: gags make it impossible to chat, losing your vowels only hinders your chatting but doesn't make it totally impossible to understand)
Bam. Problem solved. Now people will only have so many cthulhu summons up their sleeves or they will be forced to use alts/play more games/get more cookies to ban more. They will also have to transfer the cookies and what not.
There could also be a "cool down" on Cthulhu summons to stop further abuse. Like someone can only call Cthulhu every 20 minutes. This will put ban happy folks in their place, and will also protect the supposedly innocent guests. Believe it or not, people TOTALLY like NOT getting banned when watching TV. Crazy, right? But it's soooooo true!
Also, I realize all of this is a mouthful to say (you know, disregarding the fact it's text) and there's no TL;DR version. Welp, if I can handle a mouthful, all of you should be able to as well. In fact, I'm sure many of you are skilled with handling large loads in your mouths. Especially Yukarin.
there's a system in place. erik is just using what's there. i've been online today the entire time and have seen some action. it's not as if erik has conjured magick and banned without effort. overall, it was an utterly dull day in chat. the chaos happened in spikes of a few minutes throughout the whole day.
please don't make me side with erik.
This is a bit like government, isn't it?
I'm content to sit around and enjoy my life as it is, and others are blowing smoke out their ears saying everything is going to hell in a hand basket. I'm not happy when these smoke-blowing basket-drivers start making decisions that will affect me in my contented state. Wasn't this addressed a few months ago with the utter destruction of max levels with the +10 crown cap? "Learn to diplomacy" seems to be a fitting statement.
what's there sucks ass.
are you getting any of this?
All in all, this thread has a very apt title. Very apt indeed.
what was the point of this post?
oh, and also Hoehouse.
Trace's wall of text made me think: Increasing Cthulhu costs per summon, going down over time.
ie Player who summons Cthulhu once every 5 hours sees no difference
Player who summons Cthulhu once every 20min will very soon go broke over the ordeal.
This method requires less babysitting/votes/other stupid shit and should still impose restrictions on people who overuse cthulhu.
wow who cares about guests just make them the same as they are now
bannable as fuck until they click my signup link
Don't you mud people for banning guests in excess?
This system would stop that behavior for you.
The banning issue does not really effect me anymore, I cannot remember the last time I was banned, and the last time I was banned in excess was years ago.
Hey Erik, why do you hate me less now?
Just curious.
My main beef with wetgenes atm is that crowns feel like an obligation. I feel like I may as well not even bother logging on unless I have a +10. Generally speaking the chat is so infested with level 25+ users that I have no say in the videos, despite my banking for years.
There's a fine line between rewarding users for generating ad revenue and requiring that all users generate ad revenue to have a shot at public rooms.
What ad revenue?
What adverts are you experiencing?
in total,
for the entire day.
Assuming the Wheatabix bucks aren't the reason, could you enlighten me?
Assuming the Wheatabix bucks aren't the reason, could you enlighten me?
No you win, it is all about the adverts.
What first gave it away?
What first gave it away?
CSI photo enhancement has revealed that your beardthing is actually constructed of several segments of Wheatabix.
Also you're evading.
What first gave it away?
CSI photo enhancement has revealed that your beardthing is actually constructed of several segments of Wheatabix.
Also you're evading.
No, I'm saying you have won.
You are right.
Congratulations.
You may now get on with your life.
keep in mind richie and erik would ban people A LOT MORE if they bothered to waste cookies to get out to go to pub.tv and get banned instantly again.
please stop using the "but there were so little bans yesterday" excuse
richie literally tried to dance me out of momoe.tv when I was alt tabbed out playing tf2 for like, 2 hours because he has nothing better to do lol
please stop using the "but there were so little bans yesterday" excuse
It is a bit hard not to mention this when dealing with complaints that everyone is banning everyone.
Can I win at this and have them removed?
One moment
> Erik is a hypocrit, and everything he says is invalid.
E:
To be clear, all you said is that they were a problem.
I'm still wondering how so.
It was built to give power to any regular user.
Unfortunately it requires that the regular uses also deal with each other.
Hint, mailing myself or shi is not dealing with each other...
when does this ever happen anymore
Even during the 4chan floods, we end up with guests who can muster maybe 120, 150 seconds if they all vote the same way, which never happens anyway, and they're all gone within about fifteen minutes because anyone who's been around for longer than a couple months can nullify all of that.
We ban each other way, way more than we do guests.
The guests are not a problem.
Hallelujah the system works.
keep in mind it wasn't ellbent's idea to post this as a thread, it was Shi's.
You have now become Hitler, great job.